
Having secured
Leland Kaiser's permission to share, what follows is an email conversation I initiated that took place between Sunday February 4, 2007 and Thursday February 8, 2007.
For those of you who don't know, Leland is a thought provoking Seventh-day Adventist from Brighton, Colorado known for his motivational speaking and his ability to change the way organizations think. A recognized futurist and acknowledged authority on the changing American healthcare system, he is a mentor to many hospitals and healthcare organizations in the U.S.
Having heard him at the
Conference on Innovation the last 2 years and having read his
blog, I had some questions I wanted to ask him which he gladly responded to below.
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From: Mike Fortune [mailto:mike4tune@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 9:11 PM
To: Leland Kaiser
Subject: Question from Mike Fortune
Hi, Leland:
Have been reading your blog. But am having difficulty reconciling what I've heard you say in person regarding John 14:6 with what you've written here: "God has no religion. We are invited to practice several. All religions are valid pathways up the same mountain. At the top there is no religion. There is only God."
Have time to elaborate?
Mike Fortune
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Answer: Thanks for asking. As John 14:6 tells us – Jesus formed the bridge between the Father and our fallen planet. His sacrifice makes possible salvation for all people regardless of their religion. All people are saved by his sacrifice whether they know Him or not. There is no other way.
God has no religion. Religions are created by people. The Holy Spirit has worked with all people, in all times, in all places. The Holy Spirit works through any existing religious form to bring people to God. If this was not true – God would be very unfair. He would say – "sorry – you were born at the wrong time."
We can be Christians but also borrow where appropriate from other religious traditions. God's truth is everywhere. The study of Judaism tells us a lot about Christianity. Native American spirituality tells us a lot about how to care for our earth.
God has no religion. God is not a SDA. God is ……. That is how he defined Himself. He is limited to no human religious system. People are judged by Light they have. Most people on the new earth will not be Christians. They could not be, by time and place of birth. However – Christ saved them all.
God bless!
Leland Kaiser
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From: Mike Fortune [mailto:mike4tune@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 7:38 AM
To: lkaiser@kaiser.net
Subject: Re: Question from Mike Fortune
Thanks for your response Leland. What I take from it is it highlights the universal heart of God to save everyone [John 3:16]. Fritz Guy wrote a good piece in Spectrum recently about Jonah and the universal heart of God to save everyone--even when those He calls to proclaim the kingdom of God act like they don't want everyone in it! And while I'm convinced heaven will hold many surprises, especially for Adventists, I'm not prepared to say everyone will be saved [and maybe you aren't either?]. If that were true, Satan would be saved too. And Revelation 20 would have to be ripped out of the Bible.
Answer: No – I am not saying everyone will be saved. I am saying some people will be saved on every spiritual path and in every religion. Jesus died for all men and women who choose the light and live according to their best understanding of it.
You're a really bright guy Leland. And I'm glad I know you. It's so encouraging to know there are people within Adventism that haven't parked their brains at the door. We need you probably more than you need us. You have stretched my thinking and encouraged me to dream big. I recently asked my church board [just moved to Toledo] for $50K to do some big ideas for outreach. Not everyone fell off their chairs. Because Jesus said the "harvest is ripe" long before the Samaritan woman and disciples did a thing [John 4:35]. He IS at work in the world. In all religions.
Answer: Good for you!
But I guess I don't understand why you would imply that all religions are the same when some outright deny the deity of Christ which 1 John 4:3 says is the spirit of antichrist? I also don't understand why someone leading Adventist innovators would title their blog "gnostic notes" knowing that the 1st heretic of Christianity was gnosticism? Sure, in the Greek, it means knowledge. Which John 1 uses to talk about Jesus. And widom paths and knowledge, especially of Jesus [John 17:3], is eternally significant. But why take the risk? What is your reward? Is it worth it?
Answer: I am not saying all religions are the same. I said they are all paths up the same mountain. I would not be a SDA if I thought all religions were the same. I have defined the kind of Gnostic I am in Gnostic Notes. A Gnostic is a person who pursues gnosis or knowledge. The first question you have to ask if someone says he is a Gnostic is what he means by the term. Jesus was a Gnostic. He pursued gnosis. That is why he could reason so effectively with the Jewish teachers. If people want to look up a definition in some book and say that is what I am – that is their problem, not mine. I am also a construct alternativist, an empiricist, a mythologist and a Seventh-day Adventist. I suppose some folks will be looking up those terms also. It might be easier to just ask me rather than play this weird type of guessing game.
You don't owe me anything. So don't feel like you have to answer these questions. It makes me nausous to think we're willing to crucify a brother or sister in Christ because of anything they say or think when judging others is what got Satan kicked out of heaven for in the first place. We have no problem with Danny Shelton having multiple marriage/divorce/remarriages leading Adventist TV but have all kinds of issues with people smarter than us that make us uncomfortable.
Answer: I respect your motivation and your desire to do the right thing. As a fellow Christian brother, of course I owe you something. We worship the same Lord.
I was just curious. And a little sad, that I'm not [at present] comfortable having this conversation online on your blog for all to read. Fortunately, my conference leadership doesn't feel the same way. Hope to see you at Innovation 3.
Answer: The blog is written for people of all religions and those with no religion. Its purpose is to light the fire of Spirit in those who read it. It is one avenue of my ministry. It is not written primarily for a SDA audience, although as far as I know there is nothing on it that contradicts SDA doctrine. Much of it does go way beyond where most SDAs are comfortable. That is O.K. I respect people wherever they are on the spiritual path.
God bless your ministry! Thanks for taking the time to ask – rather than throwing stones.
Lee
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From: Mike Fortune [mailto:mike4tune@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2007 9:56 AM
To: lkaiser@kaiser.net
Subject: Re: Question from Mike Fortune
Thank you Lee!!! Sorry to keep bugging you, but I was wondering if I might share our dialogue with my pastor friends in Ohio?
Answer: Please do share. And remember – our Kaiser website is a business website. I invite all of my business partners to write on the site. Most choose not to. There are many things on the website, I do not agree with. How could you believe in reincarnation and be a SDA? Unless my name is signed to an entry on the website, you should not assume I necessarily approve of the ideas. My associates express their own views. We have a business relationship with each other. So I run around with Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Sufis, New Agers, Reincarnationists, born-again Southern Baptists etc. We all love one another and respect one another. Nothing on the site is "cleansed." I do not practice thought control. I also maintain this posture in my work at the university. I am not afraid of what other people believe. I do like to know what they believe. If you are a Christian I expect you to have read the Gita, the Koran and the Kabbalah. If you have not - – you probably don't know why you are a Christian, except you were born in a Christian country.
Lee